tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1344424071192264900.post6672616733637399052..comments2023-03-25T05:42:56.513-05:00Comments on Sharing Ministry and Faith: Crabby Christians?Steve Thorsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17378015932917535496noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1344424071192264900.post-80200251458910009982009-08-25T07:58:52.384-05:002009-08-25T07:58:52.384-05:00This is a fascinating conversation. It's good...This is a fascinating conversation. It's good to step back and breathe a little. I'm thankful for you, Mike, and for Tim. It's a pastor's dream to be reminded of God's amazing love by those who are members of the congregation. I've been talking with others too, including other pastors. I hope to work in harmony with others in our area. One thing I will say is that I've been concerned with many things in the ELCA for a long time. I've been a member of WordAlone for 10 years and find myself allied closely with many pastors who have been much more active in WordAlone and Lutheran CORE than have been. The sexuality statement is a symptom, not the cause of something much deeper in our denomination. I will, however, be patient, I will breathe, I will talk with other pastors and people and try to work in concert with others. Thanks again.Steve Thorsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17378015932917535496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1344424071192264900.post-82950804035276294422009-08-25T00:02:36.459-05:002009-08-25T00:02:36.459-05:00Pastor Steve,
I have been following this decisio...Pastor Steve,<br /> I have been following this decision from afar since last Thursday from California. I have not been around town or Cokato ELC since the decision has come down, so please forgive me if I bring up some things that may have been covered at church this past Sunday.<br /> Much like Tim's perspective stated above, I am not liberal. In today's political climate, I would be labeled a right-wing nut job extremist (Christian, conservative, veteran, Vice Commander of the local Legion post....) I have been in the scriptures and prayer over the Social Statement on Sexuality for some time and I must say I have learned a lot and am extremely surprised at what I am about to write. <br /> 1. Jesus was/is not in the accounting business (good thing because we would ALL be doomed!) <br /> 2. I do not recall Jesus condemning ANYONE (please correct me if I'm wrong)<br /> 3. I do not condone homosexuality or any sin for that matter. I do know that we must repent and turn away from our sin in order to be saved. <br /> 4. John 6:35-37 is what I read this morning. The words "no one" and "everyone" are spoken here, without disclaimers (thank God).<br /> 5. Cokato ELC is not under the thumb of the pontiff. We are not assigned our clergy by the Vatican or the Bishop of the Archdiocese. We have the power to deny clergy, openly, based on anything we want to (including homosexuality, gender, age.....) so I see that there is nothing to fear.<br /> 6. The ELCA does a lot of good things world wide and to leave it based on one bad decision, well, I don't know.<br /> 7. I do believe that it's possible for a homosexual to have ministerial gifts, just as it's possible for any person. The question I ask myself is: would I receive communion from an openly gay pastor and I believe the answer is yes. If a gay pastor isn't good enough to dish out the sacrements, what makes anyone good enough? Surely, none of us has earned the right! <br /> 8. I'm sorry for the long post, but I have been refraining until I really knew how I felt. <br /> 9. Last but not least: I think the social statement served it's purpose. I think it got people to finally pick up their Bibles and read it a little. To me that's all that matters. <br /><br />The only fear that I have is that somehow this social statement is somehow condoning sin. What are the requirements for the homosexual clergy? Are they to remain celebate, or monogamous (sp?). Chat later<br /><br />God is great and His grace and mercy are inconceivable to us mere humans!<br /><br />Love and prayers,<br />Mike LAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1344424071192264900.post-38703483223837523022009-08-24T22:09:39.310-05:002009-08-24T22:09:39.310-05:00Thanks so much, Tim. The big deal for me is the S...Thanks so much, Tim. The big deal for me is the Social Statement on Sexuality, and only secondarily the ministry policies. I can deal with messiness in regard to leadership more than I can with muddiness in teaching. I appreciate your cool head. We need to talk and walk together. Thanks.Steve Thorsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17378015932917535496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1344424071192264900.post-17981235879029355082009-08-24T22:02:09.536-05:002009-08-24T22:02:09.536-05:00This is probably the fifth time I sat down to try ...This is probably the fifth time I sat down to try to comment on this issue. Because Pastor Steve is right that these are troubling issues and we want to make the right choice. <br /><br />First of all let me be fair about where I am coming from. I am extremely conservative. I thought George Bush was a liberal. So it will come as no shock to anyone that I believe homosexuality is not what God intended for us. <br /><br />The ELCA has made its choice. But it is not a binding decision. They left the pastoral selection up to the individual congregations. So we, at Cokato ELC are not bound by this decision. <br /><br />What do we do now? Two weeks ago I think most people had a fairly positive view of the ELCA. They do many good things and are a positive way for local churches to band together, pool their resources and spread the word of God throughout the world. They are still doing that. Go to the website and see. This week they are the evil empire.<br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I think the ELCA made huge mistake last week by turning their back on scripture and bending to political pressure.<br /><br />The argument on the other side is that of Christ's abundant love. If we truly love everyone then everyone should be included. And how can you say someone is included if they are unable to serve in all aspects of the church. There are after all, no sinless pastors or church leaders. But the idea that we accept this persons sin, without any apparent repentance because the committed relations suggests they are not going to quit, is troublesome to me. <br /><br />So ELCA is off course. If a ship goes off course, is the first reaction to run to the life boats? Or do we go to the bridge and turn the rudder? If your child steals candy from the store, do you pack his bags and kick him out. Or do you try to teach him right from wrong? I think the local pastors letter is a good first step. I would like to work through the synod to change the course back to what it should be.<br /><br />I am fully aware that may not be enough. At some point we may decide to leave the ELCA. My first loyalty is to ELC Cokato. If the decision is made to leave. So be it.<br /><br />Christs grace is larger than I can fathom. He has forgiven me and that took some doing. He had to die. I clearly do not deserve his grace. But that's the cool thing about grace, you don't have to.<br /><br />Tim RobbinsUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05211348121829600443noreply@blogger.com